You can find Darcy on socials @drdarcyphysio
If you’d like to know more about Darcy or book a Physiotherapist Consult click here
Hannah:
Welcome to the Burn Pod listeners. Now we’re really excited to introduce you to an incredible guest, someone that we’ve been working with behind the scenes at BurnTheory, to design a banger new version 2.0 of our Roll and Release workshops. Now, today we are lucky to have Darcy Stubbings join us to jump down that rabbit hole of mobility stretching, and I guess a little bit of bodily awareness. So welcome Darcy.
Darcy Stubbings:
Thanks Hannah. Stoked to be here.
Hannah:
Can we take a little into what you do with the clients one on one at the performance centre. I guess what are the regular ailments, so to speak, that you see? Or if there are even some consistent, regular ailments that people sort of bring to you and you manage your help with.
Darcy Stubbings:
Yeah, not a problem. Well, I guess it’d be easiest to separate clients into clients that are struggling with acute pain or injuries. So it’s only just recently occurred within the last three months and then injuries or pain syndromes that have been around for quite a long time. So traditionally people who move a lot and eat well, and rest well and get good sleep, and kind of moderate most of the naughtier things in life, I guess. The alcohol and the sweets, and that kind of stuff. Traditionally, those types of people avoid chronic pain. I don’t see a lot of people who are living a very healthy life struggling with long term back pain or neck pain, unless they’ve had a traumatic incident in the past, like a-
Hannah:
Car accident or something.
Darcy Stubbings:
Car accident. Exactly. Exactly. And so for those people who are already really healthy, I’m basically acting like the Formula One pit crew, like I mentioned before. So I put on my physio hat initially to come to a diagnosis. If someone has had an acute injury in the gym or whilst exercising, or out on the trails, you’re basically a walking MRI machine. As a physio you’ve got a number of assessment techniques that can rule out certain more serious pathologies that if are indicated, may need an actual MRI to see what’s going on. But for the most part I’m yeah, just ruling out serious pathology. And then identifying exactly what has happened, and then creating a clear pathway over the coming weeks and months so that person can get back to full health. Quite often, if it is an acute injury, it’s only happened recently and it wasn’t too serious. That’s not a very long journey. So with those clients, I might work with them for, let’s say three to five sessions.
And I always want, particularly if clients already have awesome habits in place that they’re really excited about. I just want them to get back to that, get back to normalcy as soon as possible, because it’s not only important for your physical health, but super important for your mental health to have your, what I like to say, quiver of habits like your surfboards. You have the habit that you pick out when you need it. So for instance, your strength and conditioning or your boxing class, or your meditation or even just cooking a really nice meal at home, all those habits have a place in your daily and weekly routine and you pick them out at the right time. So getting people back to that is my absolute top priority. When people have had longer term pain, so in the medical literature it’s defined as three months or more as chronic pain, and that’s not because of the severity of the pain you’re experiencing.
It’s not always a 10 out of 10, but it’s more about the changes that occur in the nervous system after that three month or so mark. And it involves a wind up mechanism of hyposensitization of various structures. And they can be either just local to say for instance, the knee that you’ve injured in that car accident or playing hockey or rugby a few years ago. Or it can be more of a global pain syndrome where a lot of things hurt far away from the initial side of injury. So that’s when things get a lot more complicated, but again, I’m stepping in as the guide and basically just helping my client make every single decision that will get them slowly back towards full health, and back to the things they absolutely love. It just involves a lot more trial and error. So I often put on the strength coach hat or the personal training hat and get them down in the gym and doing the actual work rather than just programming a few things out and then hoping for the best that they’re going to do it.
Hannah:
[inaudible 00:04:50] do it.
Darcy Stubbings:
Yeah, well, that’s how it’s worked in previous situations in physio and Pilates clinics. And habits are really hard to form and often people need a bit of a helping hand in the first few weeks to set them up. And then that positive reinforcement cycle of feeling great about doing something that’s very healthy for yourself that then kicks in. And if I can kind of guide them to the point at which their positive reinforcement starts to arise, then normally motivation is not an issue thereafter, but if I don’t do that and just kind of leave them to their own devices, I mean, I’m the same, it’s very hard to bring on a new habit. So it’s often nice just to have that guidance initially. It’s often a lot of education, particularly with pain management, how to manage pain that is often presenting in different ways.
It could be dull, it could be sharp, it could be radiating, it could have a neural component like pins and needles or weakness, which is often quite concerning. And yeah, just essentially downloading the knowledge that I’ve gained over the last 10 or so years of physio school, and working as a physio so that they understand that these things are normal and they take a bit of time. But if we just get back to cultivating the habits in our daily and weekly routine that will kind of ensure longer term success. And we stick to those, get little wins under the belt, every single day. Then it’s only a matter of time until they feel better and they feel like they don’t have any restrictions or blocks physically and mentally anymore. So in terms of the presentations that I see, I treat every joint in the body, a lot of spinal conditions like lower back pain, sciatic type pain that involves a neural component that refers down the leg.
Sometimes that involves a disc as the cause, which is a bit more serious, but still very manageable with movement. You just got to, I guess, have that trial and error approach, like what’s helping today? What’s not? And then have a really clear picture as how to move forward. A lot of shoulder, rotator cuff injuries, particularly with boxers, they strain one of the four muscles that act as a stabilising muscle in the shoulder joint. And just again, getting people back to what they love doing. That’s my top priority.
Hannah:
Yeah. I guess we’ve already talked about a few things that people can do in their every day life to minimise risk of some of these ailments. And I guess there’s only so much you can do when it comes to acute injury things happen, twist your ankle, hit a hole or something and your knee gives out. And the things that we talked about before is just eating well and sleeping, and moving the body. But are there specific things that we can do just to help, I guess, minimise the risk of injury and these ailments that can crop up?
Darcy Stubbings:
Oh, definitely. I mean, it depends on what existing habits someone already has. For example, if they are already going to the gym or doing a class at BurnTheory four or five times a week, then that’s a pretty solid foundation of physical exercise in their routine. So they may not necessarily need to do a half an hour kind of daily strength and mobility routine. However, I think before any of that, it’s helpful to have a line of communication, an open line of communication with your body. So checking in at the start of the day in a very mindful way. It might be as you’re having your cup of tea in the morning, just a moment before the rush begins before you start actioning tasks left, right and centre. Just closing your eyes and having a quick assessment of your physical, mental, and energetic health.
So is there anything in my body that is sore today? Just targeting or dialling in on that with your attention. And noticing whether that changes as you look at it, or if it’s something you actually need to maybe focus on with your mobility, or let your coach know at BurnTheory. And then your mental health, how’s your head space today? Are you feeling up lifted? Are you feeling a little bit down? They’re the things that I think we all go through. So just honouring how you’re feeling mentally and then energetically as well. Like how much in the tank do I have to give to the tasks that lay ahead throughout the day? Whether it is work or dedicating time to our family or, or getting in for a class because often-
Hannah:
We talk about this a lot at BurnTheory as well. You can’t always be at that 100% some weeks or some days you’re going to feel great, and you’re going to get in there and you’re going to smash your class, but other times you’re just not feeling up to it. And it’s understanding and recognising those moments and not overdoing it or not pushing it or doing what your body needs. And it might just be more of a gentle stretching approach that day, rather than, “I’m going to try and force myself to go for that run.” When you’re not up for it.
Darcy Stubbings:
Yeah. You’re spot on 100%. Yeah, you just want to listen to your body and rather than just treat it as something that you use to go about your day, honouring it as the really complicated biological organism that has so much going on within it. And so much can impact it in both a positive and negative way, just checking in and seeing, “Well what’s my status quo this morning? And therefore, what do I need from my day?” And then even if you do go to class and give it 110%, because it’s just fun in a boxing class to kind of push it, at least you’ve had that moment of checking yourself before you wreck yourself.
And if you consistently ignore your body over time and just keep going at 110%, then that’s when injuries do occur, but then you also have to ask yourself, “Well, why am I not listening to my body? Why am I just going straight into that class gung ho and actually not spending a bit of time stretching or meditating.” And again, it could be just that habits are hard to set up, or it could be that this one particular habit is acting as a bit of a crutch in your life as well. And you don’t want to change how you engage with it because it’s the glue holding the rest of your life together. They’re all very important things to understand about yourself. And I mean, when you are feeling like that, for example, what do you normally do in terms of asking questions of your body? And then if you find something is maybe not in balance, what would your first step be throughout the day?
Hannah:
Yeah, I think for me, it’s giving myself permission to not be at a 100%. I think there’s a lot of pressure that we put on ourselves, particularly as women, we’re trying to be everything to everyone. And I think it’s giving yourself permission to not be perfect that day. Or if I am feeling a little bit worse for wear, and I’ve got on my diary that I wanted to go for a run. Or then you get a little bit of that guilty feeling start to creep in because you’re feeling like maybe you shouldn’t. What I would do is I’d take myself out and I’d just see how I feel in the first five minutes. And sometimes it’s just getting moving. And if I’m feeling mediocre in the first five minutes I’m like, “All right, well maybe it won’t be a run. Maybe it’ll just be a walk today.” Or maybe first five to 10 minutes I’m actually feeling okay and it was just sort of more a mental… When sometimes you get in your own head a little bit.
Darcy Stubbings:
Yeah.
Hannah:
And so I guess it’s just sort of trialling or starting to just move the body and then if it’s not there for you, it doesn’t feel great at that point then I go, “Right, it’s not going to happen today, Hannah. And that is okay. You’re tired.” And maybe this is a point where… Just go for a gentle walk, come back in and just look after yourself in other ways. Nourishing dinner, instead of that glass of wine, maybe it needs to be a herbal tea and a good night’s sleep. And that’s sort of how I’ll manage those feelings.
Darcy Stubbings:
Fantastic. Yeah. And that’s that next level of connection with your body because you’re treating it as that really complicated organism rather than just something that you can use and abuse and use to get your dopamine fix throughout the day, for example.
Hannah:
Yeah.
Darcy Stubbings:
With heavy, intense exercise, which again, I really enjoy. And I think it certainly has a part to play in a daily and weekly routine, but… Well, maybe not even daily, like you say, if you’re feeling a little tired, or the energy tank is a bit low today, then choosing something that will honour your body and mind rather than just doing exactly what you did yesterday, just because.
Hannah:
Yeah. And there’s a different way that you can look after your body and mind. I mean, exercise is great for both, but sometimes it’s not what your mind or your body needs that day. It’s recognising that you’re probably lacking sleep or you’re probably needing some nourishing dinner. And maybe even God forbid, an afternoon on the couch, just stopping and slowing down a little bit. And sometimes that can then allow you to be stronger and fitter, and more motivated for the week coming up. If you just give yourself permission to have that downtime.
Darcy Stubbings:
Definitely. And personally in the last couple of weeks, because I work inside a lot and a couple of my previous jobs over the last few years, just trying to find workers, we were travelling around the world. Was working as a labourer building mountain bike trails outside on the side of cliffs and-
Hannah:
Oh wow.
Darcy Stubbings:
Being a carpenters apprentice and a landscaper and all kinds of things that I was out in the sun. So trying to protect myself from the sun, but I was getting so much vitamin D on a daily basis. And being from Queensland and then living as well in New South Wales, you get a lot of sun up there. And as much as I love Hobart-
Hannah:
You don’t get much sun down here.
Darcy Stubbings:
A lot less sun. Yeah. So I was getting a little bit of the SADs, the seasonal affective disorder.
Hannah:
Yeah. Yeah.
Darcy Stubbings:
And it was because of me just asking that question pretty much every day how am I feeling and what do I need today? And noticing that I was slowly declining that I decided, oh, well, that’s probably it. I need to supplement with vitamin D and just make sure my daily dose is at the recommended, or even above the recommended target. So subtle shifts in your routine because you listen to your body and reflect regularly on how you feel can make all the difference.
Hannah:
Huge difference. And I love where we’re going with this. I was going to move us more into mobility versus stretching, but I think this is a really key, a really critical discussion point around those, habits. And let’s, I guess, if you don’t mind, I’m going completely sidetracked here, but if we dive into I guess, how you help people create those habits. And if you’ve got any tips around starting to build in those habits, as we said, they’re really difficult to put in place. And we talk about it with our ladies all the time you get those, “Oh 21 days to create a habit.” But it’s a little bit more difficult than that, than just doing something. Can we go through that together? What creates a habit, I guess?
Darcy Stubbings:
Yeah, sure. Well I think initially again, just the realisation that you need a particular habit or that you would like to initiate a particular habit. So for example, maybe not something I necessarily need, but recently I’ve wanted to improve my guitar playing. So I’ve reached out to one of the local legends in Cary Lewincamp and I’m learning guitar with him. And I’ve made sure that I have the money to do that every couple of weeks. And I’ve blocked out time in my schedule. And I’ve kind of approached that new habit from a number of different angles to make it as easy as possible. And for me to be accountable because he expects me to be there obviously for a lesson every couple of weeks. So it just makes it far more likely to be successful when I’ve thought about all of the potential pitfalls before starting a habit.
So if it’s something like well, I’m a Type A personality. I love my classes at BurnTheory. I’m super regular I’m there all the time. I’m giving 110%, but I do notice that particularly with my work hours being a little longer this year or in the last couple years, and I noticed the stress creeping up. I would like to bring in a habit like meditation, but I’m not sure where to start, how to chat to Hannah about it. She recommended a few apps, but I don’t even know when in the day I would do it. I mean, in that situation, I would normally recommend starting the day with the habit. It can be really difficult, but as soon as you get a few in a row, then again, that positive reinforcement comes back in that you just feel really good when you do the thing comparatively to when you don’t.
So you could set alarms. I mean, it’s all kind of very logistical, but you could have someone close to you if it’s your partner or a friend, or anyone really who you can tell about the habit and say, “Look, I’m trying to do this habit. I’d love for you to just ask me how it’s going every now and then, every couple of days to keep me accountable. When it’s a client of mine, I find that actually getting them into the gym, if that’s the habit we’re trying to create, and being there with them and just providing a lot of feedback in the form of positive motivation and encouragement is often very helpful. And people feel good about doing a habit. They often are more successful at implementing it consistently over a long period of time. So, yeah, I think you want to set up all those logistical measures, the alarms, the same-
Hannah:
Putting it in your calendar. Yeah. Blocking out the time. Yeah, yeah.
Darcy Stubbings:
Exactly. Even if you work at home at a desk, just have a little bit of paper up on the wall in front of you that says, “Have you meditated today?” And if you missed it in the morning, try and catch up with it. But I often find that bringing a new habit in the afternoon is a lot harder when you’ve maybe had to do a lot more deep work throughout the day, and you don’t have as much energy in the tank. So yeah, starting off the day with the habit that you want to bring in and having the accountability of someone else knowing about it. But before any of that, knowing why you’re doing it. Because if you’re just doing something because someone else told you to, or you read somewhere that it was healthy, then it’s probably not as likely to set in.
I think when you can create a story that makes sense to you, like while I’m quite stressed and I’m struggling with a bit of social anxiety and I don’t want to feel like this is spiralling out of control. I really want to knock this on the head right now and start taking positive steps forward. And it’s really important to me because all these things are quite uncomfortable and I feel stressed and that’s not very fun. And I would love to be able to be less stressed so I can show up for my partner or my family and my job in a better way. Like when you can rationalise it and understand that while this really is the best next step, then it’s just hacking your procrastinations through those logistical tasks. And then once you get through to that positive feedback cycle I think we’ve all felt it when we’re trying to get back into even an awesome space like yourself.
I’m sure some of your members have had to take time off because they’ve moved or if they’ve had an injury, they find it’s hard to get back and it probably doesn’t make sense to them rationally. Because they’re thinking, “Well, I just want to get back to class. It’s such a fun time.” But they just struggle to get their foot out the door and get in for that early class in the morning.
Hannah:
Yeah.
Darcy Stubbings:
Yeah, they’re very hard to create oftentimes. But once you get through that initial phase, then I don’t know about you, but I live for that feeling of just being excited to wake up. This might be a whole new conversation, but I’ve struggled in the past throughout my 20s, some pretty long bouts of depression and anxiety. And I was on antidepressants for a while in my mid 20s and managed to take myself off those. But I’ve certainly fell into some pretty dark spaces for a long period of time that haven’t really shifted with a lot of different habits. So for me it was about trusting the process and trusting that continual investment in self-care. And in making sure that my physical and mental health was the top priority of my day, even without often a lot of physiological feedback, it was really just trusting the process. So eventually things change even difficult head spaces, but it can’t be something that’s just a fling or just an overnight, or a monthly challenge. Even though they’re fantastic kickstarters.
Hannah:
Yeah.
Darcy Stubbings:
You’ve got to play the long game. Think of it as a marathon rather than a sprint. All those kind of cliches are cliches for a reason because it takes time. But when you invest time in your physical and mental health, then everything gets better in your life.
Hannah:
I know that’s a really good point. I’m sort of, I guess you could call it seasonal perspective disorder or something I’m feeling at the moment and just a bit… And I think a lot of us are feeling that just a bit flat or just-
Darcy Stubbings:
Definitely.
Hannah:
I’m not as motivated or I’m not feeling excited or I’m just feeling a bit stuck.
Darcy Stubbings:
Yeah.
Hannah:
And so I’ve been feeling that for a little bit and I think when you start something different or you try to make a change, I think we expect to immediately feel better and it doesn’t work like that. And, so I think it’s just a really good timely reminder and a gentle reminder from us that you do need to stick at these things. And it’s a good reminder for me too, that I do need to stick at these new habits that I’m wanting to form yeah. Consistently. And I can’t expect it to change in a day or two weeks even, or a month.
It sometimes can take a lot longer than that, but every time you do it, you are benefiting your body and your mind and your general all over wellbeing by doing so.
Darcy Stubbings:
Yeah. And you mentioned that you guide a lot of mindfulness at BurnTheory. I think what that does most importantly, is create somewhat of a compassionate perspective that you can then view life from like a bird’s-eye view.
Hannah:
Yeah.
Darcy Stubbings:
Because as you guide yourself through a body scan, for example, you’re kind of separating your attention from the body into two different parts rather than just experiencing pain. It’s something that I use a lot with clients who have chronic pain, just trying to notice the pain and not necessarily define yourself by it can be a really big switch. I mean, Eckhart Tolle speaks about that in his books, in New Earth and Power of Now just that ability to become the impartial observer. I kind of like compassionate observer, impartial sounds a bit apathetic, but just having… Almost like if a child came up to you and was upset about something you would give the child all your attention, and you’d really try and meet them with as much heart as you can and as much focus.
And if you can talk to yourself like that and notice how you are going physically and mentally, then it often makes it easier to then action something. But then still that is a difficult step. Being able to action something you can reflect on it, notice it, but then still be apathetic or struggle with motivation. So books like Mel Robbins’ 5 Second Rule, I found very helpful. Just as soon as you’re thinking about something that you want to do, like for me, it’s currently playing guitar as the thing that I’m trying to bring back into my life. So as soon as I look at the guitar and think, “Oh, I probably should practise right now.” Then I just do it, immediately open the case, go on over, get it in your hands. And then you’re probably going to at least practise for 10, 20 minutes, which consistently over time is going to be a lot better than not.
So with meditation as well, if meditation or mindfulness is the practise, make sure you’ve got a clear plan. Like I have a few apps that I like to use. I’m currently really into Waking Up by Sam Harris, because it’s just a really interesting perspective that’s a bit more scientific on meditation, but Headspace and 1 Giant Mind and calm, like all these apps have incredible, yeah libraries of meditation. So if are in the morning thinking about, “Well maybe I should meditate.” Well just do it. Have that five second rule, five, four, three, two, one. And then you action it straight away.
Hannah:
Yeah.
Darcy Stubbings:
Even if it’s for a minute that’s a step in the right direction. And then I heard a quote once it’s from an American, so it’s less relevant to our sporting kind of matches, but celebrate every win like you’ve just won the Super Bowl or whatever your Super Bowl is like celebrate it. Don’t beat yourself up and say, “Well, that wasn’t long enough.” Or, “I should have done better there.” Just acknowledge that you’ve taken a small step and that as you consistently take those small steps, they’ll lead to huge transformations.
Hannah:
Yeah.
Darcy Stubbings:
And yeah. Then you’re on your way.
Hannah:
Such a good point. I think particularly I know exercise is always the big one and I want to exercise consistently. It’s also one of the toughest, I guess, habits to implement. I think it’s probably because it’s more time consuming I guess. And we are strapped for time, but I think that’s a really good one if you’re, if you’re sitting at home and you’re going, “Oh, I should really go for that walk.” Or, if I wanted to start running, try running. Or, “I should really go to that gym class.” Try the five second rule, five, four, three, two, just do it.
Darcy Stubbings:
Yeah.
Hannah:
I find that if… I have this conversation, I think we all do in our head like, “Oh.” And then if you sit there and you ruminate on it, you’ll just talk yourself out of it. It just feels heavier and harder to get moving. Whereas if you just start, one, you’re moving your body. And even if you, as I said before, like myself, if I’m not feeling up to it, I just start it and see how I feel. And even if I only end up doing 10 minutes, that’s still 10 minutes more movement that I was going to do if I didn’t do it at all. And that is a win. And if you’re doing that little bit of extra 10 minutes a day, that over time is going to make a significant impact to my health and my fitness long term, even if it’s only those 10 minutes a day and it won’t always be 10 minutes a day. Once you get going, sometimes it might be 10 minutes, but other times you’re going to get into it and it might be half an hour. And there’s your workout done.
Darcy Stubbings:
Exactly. And what you’re talking about is that setting that the habit or the container and what you do within that container of time might change. Maybe initially it’s just a few gentle spinal twists and a few bridges and some simple core work, but as the habit continues and you maintain that container and just guard it with your life, like “No, that is my 10 minutes in the morning.” That I start listening to how I feel and then doing a little bit of gentle mobility. And then maybe a bit of core work or some bigger movements, like step back lunges, just to kind of wake up the body. What you do in that container of time will change and it will become more exciting and it will become probably more relevant to also what you are trying to overcome.
If you have pain or an injury, then you can get quite specific. But yeah, it’s also sometimes not knowing what to do is a barrier. So with my clients, I think like a physio, but I try and act like a trainer or a coach. Because I find that people like yourself are just often so much better at actually helping people do the work. I mentioned earlier, physios tend to be good at diagnosing and understand what path is the best one to take from here on out. However a lot of clients come back and say, “I haven’t done my physio exercises.” And again, that’s not on them necessarily. It’s on the guide or the health practitioner in helping them hack the habit as best as possible. So I use an app that has a huge library of great exercise videos and it’s right there.
So literally all my clients have to do is wake up, help them kind of set those alarms. They open one app and they just do exactly what I’ve suggested in that time to set up the container. So they don’t have to think really, but then as they become more motivated and that positive reinforcement cycle kicks in, often I find my clients take it in different directions that they’re inspired by. And once they’re out of pain and they’ve rehabbed an injury for example, then they do a whole range of things with that time. And then normally that is compounded upon. And then maybe they sign up to a place like your studio. And I personally love group fitness. I think just working out with people alongside you is kind of like being in a sports team for me. Like I loved playing rugby and cricket, and did a couple of triathlons in my younger years. That’s obviously a solo sport, but I loved being around other people who were motivated and excited to get after it. And I think when you’re at a space like yours, it’s just a really exciting thing.
And I think it’s really amazing what you’re doing. You’re setting up a place that people love to come and it’s so much deeper than just your physical health.
Hannah:
Oh it’s so much deeper.
Darcy Stubbings:
A place that kind of it just makes the rest of the day even better. And so yeah people that provide a service that helps people actually do the work. That’s one of the most important things, if you’re good at diagnosing, or I mean certainly there’s obviously a very important role for doctors and nurses are incredible in what they do. But it’s often in the rehabilitation side of things, where else the preventative side of healthcare, helping people get in and set up these habits. I think that’s the most important thing going forward.
Hannah:
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Well, I think I’ve taken up a lot of your time and we’ve gone over some pretty awesome stuff. So I’m going to wrap this up if that’s all right Darcy. But if our listeners, before you go, want to get in contact with you, how do they actually do that?
Darcy Stubbings:
Well, I am on the socials. I could be a little bit more present, I think, but I’m just busy in my day to day life. But yeah, I’m @drdarcyphysio on Instagram and TikTok. Although I’m a bit of a newbie, I feel like a young giraffe on TikTok just trying to find my way.
Hannah:
Better than me. I haven’t even tried it yet. It scares me so.
Darcy Stubbings:
I heard it’s the way of the future, but I’m almost 33 now. So I know I’m not in the back end of my life, hopefully, but I’m certainly not TikTok savvy. But yeah, if you’re interested in getting my opinion on something you’re working through, then I’m ggt.com.au/physiotherapy as well. So always keen to have a chat with people and help them get back to the things they love. Yeah those are the three places you can probably find me. Otherwise yeah, I’ll be walking around Hobart trying to get a bit of vitamin D during the day.
Hannah:
Sounds good. Well, look, thank you so, so much for all your time, it was amazing to hear about your experiences and thank you for all the incredible insights. It’s been an incredibly educational conversation and I really, and the listeners really appreciate your time.
Darcy Stubbings:
You’re very welcome Hannah. Thanks for having me.
Hannah:
Have a wonderful rest of your day and for our Burn listeners until next podcast, have a fantastic day.
